Percakapan dengan Sutanto Mendut: Tentang manajemen confused ala tropical country, dan belajar bersama di Komunitas Lima Gunung

Tulisan ini berisi hasil percakapan antara anggota Kunci Study Forum and Collective — Nuraini Juliastuti (Nuning), Fiky Daulay (Fiky), rombongan mahasiswa Social Practice and Community Engagement (BA Hons) dari Victorian College of the Arts (VCA), University of Melbourne, Danny Butt (koordinator program VCA), dan rombongan mahasiswa Institut Seni Indonesia (ISI) Yogyakarta, dengan Sutanto Mendut, inisiator Festival Lima Gunung. Nuning dan Fiky membantu merancang dan mengorganisir kunjungan mahasiswa ke Festival Lima Gunung. Percakapan ini berlangsung di tengah pelaksanaan Festival Lima Gunung ke-18 di Desa Tutup Ngisor, 5 Juli 2019 lalu. Hadir juga dalam pembicaraan adalah Toto Rahardjo. Percakapan berangkat dari keingintahuan Fiky dan Nuning tentang konsep “belajar bersama” dalam konteks pengorganisasian Festival Lima Gunung. Lantas percakapan bergulir untuk membicarakan beragam aspek kemandirian Komunitas Lima Gunung, ekosistem masyarakat desa, ‘manajemen bodoh’, arti keberagaman, dan aneka kebijaksanaan lokal lainnya. Pembicaraan hadir dengan campuran pemakaian Bahasa Indonesia dan Bahasa Inggris. Tulisan ini sengaja menampilkan hasil pembicaraan secara utuh dan tidak mengalami banyak penyuntingan tata bahasa supaya pembaca bisa menangkap atmosfer pembicaraan yang informal dan merasakan percabangan pikiran yang inspiratif.

Danny Butt: We talking with Fiky and Nuning about their work, with the school of improper education; and they were talking about Nyantrik as a kind of method that you were currently exploring and I ask a question about Nyantrik in relationship in your work and festival. And then would be good for Nuning and Fiky and you to maybe have a brief conversation about Nyantrik, maybe in Javanese or, and because it seems to me that your practice knows that very well, and relates to what they are thinking about. 

Nuning: Mungkin saya cerita dulu. Sekolah Salah Didik yang dikerjakan KUNCI sebenarnya mengujicobakan empat model pedagogi yang berbeda-beda. Yang pertama, teori dan semacam konsep yang ditawarkan oleh filsuf Perancis, Jacques Ranciere; Ignorant School Master. Jadi dia membayangkan bahwa mungkin bisa juga kalau tidak ada hubungan yang hierarkis antara guru dan murid. Proses belajar juga bisa dilangsungkan dari sesuatu yang nol, kalau guru dan murid tidak tahu apa-apa. Lalu untuk tahap kedua kami mencoba untuk melihat lagi metode “Turun ke bawah” yang dulu seniman-seniman yang berhaluan sosialis pada periode 1950-1960an di Indonesia. Kami ingin mencoba bagaimana kalau kami mempraktikkan Turba di zaman sekarang. Dan kami mungkin bukan seperti seniman yang dulu, yang datang ke desa dengan pandangan sebagai seniman dan mungkin punya gagasan yang superior sendiri juga kan, ada status sendiri juga. Tapi kami justru ingin memproblematisir bawah itu maksudnya apa, untuk di Kunci itu salah satu yang kami bicarakan. Nah, terus untuk yang tahap ini, Pak Tanto, kami lagi ingin mencobakan atau mengambil metode nyantrik. Nah, dengan nyantrik misalnya kami ingin lihat juga, yang jadi guru, kalau nyantrik metode tradisionalnya kan kita belajar dari guru, atau orang yang dianggap punya pengetahuan tertentu. Nah, tapi di proses sekolah salah didik kami justru ingin mengeksplorasi lebih jauh, ingin membongkar makna guru juga. Jadi guru juga bisa jadi bukan orang yang punya pengetahuan tertentu tentang ini, memang punya pengetahuan tertentu tapi kita yang, muridnya jadi lebih aktif gitu. Kita mencari misalnya, karena Pak Tanto bagus pengen belajar cara mengorganisir festival semacam itu. Kita menset sendiri. Mungkin Fiky bisa menambahkan menerjemahkan.

Fiky: Iya mungkin dari obrolan dengan teman-teman di Sekolah Salah Didik soal Nyantrik itu, kurang lebih aku nambahin soal bagaimana misalnya misalnya si murid juga akhirnya tidak langsung mencapai ilmunya ketika nyantrik, tapi ada proses tertentu nih yang harus dicapai untuk mencapai “kesempurnaan ilmu”. Tapi di sisi lain, di sisi muridnya juga ada semacam perenungan-perenungan sendiri dari dirinya yang nggak langsung dibilang sama gurunya. Nah mungkin di sana juga kaya “tek-tokan” antara guru dan murid, sekaligus ilmu juga semakin bergesekan tapi juga makin kaya. Begitu.

Fiky: Aku mungkin nambahin ya. Karena sebelumnya kita juga kan, beberapa teman sebenarnya sudah melakukan nyantrik tetapi ada beberapa beberapa kali pertemuan dengan guru-guru yang kami anggap mereka dulu melakukan nyantrik atau melalui proses nyantrik banyak sekali kata yang muncul itu soal rasa. Nah, jadi merasakan itu, kadang-kadang agak sulit menerjemahkannya, tapi di sisi lain tantangannya juga itu ketika melakukan nyantrik. Kalau menurut Pak Tanto bagaimana memahami rasa itu?

Pak Tanto: Dari cantrik tadi ya. Saya kira kalau di Norwegia dingin, di padang pasir, agamanya yang Islam atau Jewish di Israel panas, kalau cantrik itu orang yang di gunung, in the mountain, they find for himself how to be a master of kungfu, because lingkungannya memang ada makanan, ada matahari, angin, air, ya. Sepi, ya. Bushy, terus meditation, itu Asia, ya. Asia, China, Cambodia with Angkor Wat, Borobudur, because food enough, and then vegetables enough not salad and mayonnaise, but in desert they go everywhere and then they want to ask everybody to go to heaven, but here everywhere is heaven, so we need how to create the literature of sex, of sastra, of eroticism, of medicine, but you know habu, and then they make empire. How to, and then you come to Australia because you master in sailor in fifteen century, and then now India for Raffles for English and then Indonesia now we confuse we are Indonesia, or Indochina, or Indo-Belanda, or Indie, I’m confused. I’m not Indonesian actually, I’m just tropical country. A lot of vegetables and a lot of time. You always say leisure time

Nuning: Leisure.

Pak Tanto: Leisure. But here leisure is from morning until night, so we don’t need lesson we dont need maestro. Everybody maestro. So I’m maestro and then I look for my student. So if you make pesantren, apa tadi, kamu gurunya siapa. Kalau ada gurunya, gurunya cari murid dong. Kalau tidak muridnya cari guru. Kita tidak menyediakan apa-apa. Kecuali kamu mau jadi stewardess ya. Ada apa, kamu anu lah, kamu transportation, kamu travel agent ke sini, ke sini. Tapi saya, because I’m lonely so I go to mountain, because I love Brisbane, I love Khmer, before Pol Pot, I love Malmo, Swedia. So if, now I Imagine that I would make a school if Danny invite me I like to be a lecturer over there. And then we create something for nothing, maybe we will create Jurrasic Park or whatever. You want to be Andy Warhol or Beethoven, no. We make something maybe after that I will everyday I will upload my process with you to my village here. So five mountain and Melbourne, I will be lecturer Melbourne to mountain here, and then your prime minister and Presiden Jokowi confuse what is this, this is art or music or whatever, just Jurrasic Park. Why not? No standard, me create, this is my passion because I met you. So you come to Australia and your school is finish. It is better we meet new community and you join and forgetting with the people. Kamu bikin sekolah?

Pak Tanto: Poor people or middle class, or rich but lonely, or rich but stupid in apartment small bed, and festival just for painters because not so many food, not so many rooms here. I can invite 2000 people in one week. The festival is three days, but three days ago, a professor come, I make a book about lima gunung. Oke we make a new event to July, and then some painters come, the young, I don’t know the talent and so on, I don’t care. And then last night they open. So 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, and then a community from Madura come. My money enough on 9 July, Oke you play in my studio on eleventh. This is management or fucking schedule whatever I don’t know. So how to manage, because I don’t know management. Impossible like me follow the government event organisation. Impossible. Three of my painters, three weeks ago come to Malaysia, exhibition. Malaysia just invite painters, Singapore, Painters, everywhere, painters. Because not so many food, just canvas. And then promo ticket, cheap ticket. So now international means one dancers and flashdisk, this is the choreographer from Jogja big city is not so many, but here I don’t know how much for this until now. Apa bendahara? 

Nuning dan Fiky: Treasurer

Pak Tanto: Treasurer. Here no treasurer. I never use my WhatsApp. It’s too busy I’m tired, I’m 65, so welfare state, here they never asked me how to do this, how this sound system, I don’t care. If you don’t have money no sound system and no life. So Dark festival possible. Because I open festival three years ago at three o’clock in the morning. Two months ago I open my museum, you here? I have a museum, life museum not like Lord of The Ring, not like ordinary museum, stupid talking with the villagers I recording. Now everybody I was an artist because I close with all the famous people at the time. So I’m artist of Kompas magazine, of New York Times, of televisions, but now it’s better all of them journalist. So now I teach them how to be a journalist. So you know my poster in this festival is 193 posters. So everybody made posters. No copyright. Because no money. And I’m not director of festival. it is difficult. Because it’s stupid festival not logical. Just lucky day like Jesus and Muhammad. I’m prophet hahaha. Really I don’t know, i’m tired here, so it’s better you invite me, just one small room, small apartment and then I make a schedule and I meet your student and I don’t know after five months. Computer and stupid and whatever. And then we come here, If the great will be great, if nothing oke just enjoy time. 

Nuning: What’s the advantage of as the topic of festival last year being stupid together? Keuntungannya apa, pak? Bodoh bersama keuntungannya apa?

Pak Tanto: Because now everybody. Everybody now in social media, all of them philosopher, all of them politician, a lot of them professor, all of them avant-garde. They know everything archaeology, anthropology, religion, I think it’s stupid ya. And all of them here is like this because everyday, especially Indonesia ya, because poor, a lot of time, no jobs. My festival just gambling, if finish next year oke finish, just come two hours ago, professor from a university in Semarang. They ask with ordinary question like a lot of journalist, so difficult for me to answer a journalist. How you make festival long time? I don’t know. Long time they ask. hey always be at all Indonesia make festival the community three years collapse, festival two years collapse. And to be frank, really difficult, because I go to the people. And my mouth sometimes change. If you ask me this is tea? I answer yes this is tea. And you ask again, what is this, this is water, this is brown, this sephia brown whatever. And then if the mountain people ask me what the idea, what is your idea, before they finish this idea I always say YES. And then I don’t want to hear. And then they go everywhere, and if they make mistake, it’s up to you. You can memperbaiki. They can improve by themself. If everybody follow me, I’m the director of festival, oh too much. Sometimes I make bullshit also. Because it’s just, I don’t know but I enjoy of course ya. Ohhh. So behind the festival, a lot of events. My strategy for festival is not just this festival. This is three days, stupid weeks. You can ask, that I make a lot of art festival because I join  the wedding party of people. Because you know wedding party is you know commercial, industrial, icon with this and here, if you are poor we make a wild ceremony. So we can create something from the married, because everybody need married, need love, need making love, need whatever. The desire make love with married, so the food of performance follow the married. Drink, sound system, so no proposal. how many event in one year, everybody want to get married. So one I join, I use the married ceremony in the village like this. In the city impossible, because parking is impossible, everywhere you know convenient store, apartment, stupid two beds and then pregnant, you know. Here two from the god, food and sleep. One room can be for eight for two is okay. So now dormitory, no air bnb, this not hostel, this is not tourism, this is not youth hostel, not standard of accomodation, so everybody sleep okay. And then food, you know in Brisbane in Tokyo, wah too much ya, fifty people so management of food is complicated for me. So here food and sleep is free jazz. Improvisation.

Danny, I love if you invite me, I’m boring with Javanesse in Indonesia. Please invite. If I can not make something over there , but I can take idea from there and then I will do something here and I get costume of western here. I imagine my friends here to use western village. To disturb the traditional stupid local wisdom. I don’t like with the government traditional. I will teach them with, what you call, like harmonic orchestra, conductor with gamelan. I’m bored with traditional, indigenous…

Pak Tanto: Maaf ya mas Fiky. Maaf omongan saya ganti lagi. Karena saya biasa campur orang-orang ya. Saya nggak bisa konsisten omong sama ini sama terus ya. Dia baru nggak punya uang, dia baru kesepian, jadi omongan saya campur setiap hari. 

Nuning: Aspek apa dari tradisionalisme yang Pak Tanto nggak suka? Are you against sophistication of traditionalism?

Pak Tanto: Ya, ya pastilah ya. Ya artinya saya mencoba analisis ya. Life style Jepang, life style Jakarta, saya juga berontak kan? Kalau saya mau jadi komponis saya umur 22 sampai 24 kan lumayan terkenal, kalau ukurannya Kompas. Seniman kita kan ukurannya Tempo. Saya sudahlah lumayan. Tapi saya waktu itu sudah meramalkan Jakarta akan kacau. On 22 untill 24 I’m stupid composer but ya famous enough in Jakarta. Actually in a big news and I’m a little bit sneaky how to play with the stupid media. How to make contemporary to be famous, not really art. Then but 25, now I’m 65. 25 I feel, after I come to Mumbay, to Bangkok, to Jakarta, oh this is not city. I started imagine that this is not a good city. Dust, transportation, and you know, kumuh apa ya? Slum, and so on. And then I moved here. So I make a new dreaming. In 7th century here, 5 km from here you find the temple of Hindu. There is three temple here, Hindu. 

Fiky: Pak, kalau ini maksudnya apa ya? Tema yang sekarang, Lumbung.

Pak Tanto: Kalau yang tahun lalu kan “Mari Goblok Bareng”. Tahun lalu mari goblok bareng, tahun ini masih goblok bareng. Jadi peristiwa politik sudah selesai, jadi kita sekarang romantik lah, pakai bahasa yang bagus, “Lumbung Budaya”. Maksud saya teman-teman juga mulai belajar volkanologi, seismograf, karena mereka orang Merapi itu paling, sastranya paling halus ya. Kalau ngomong itu, main gamelan bahasanya senang berdoa. Di Facebook saya tadi malam, doa kan, doa Jawa. Karena ada vulkanik, ada lahar panas, ada lahar dingin. Sini orangnya kan sopan-sopan, bahasa Jawanya juga khusus. Seluruh Indonesia bilang ‘lali’, tapi di sini nggak boleh bilang lali, harus bilang ‘supe’, misalnya. Banyak yang rahasia sini, lokal sangat sub-lokal. Teman Lima Gunung banyak yang nggak tahu. Saya yang tahu pribadi apa. Saya senang sama smartphone, daripada artis, a lot of artist, politician but not smart…phone, ya. I love smart and creative guys, ya. Sekarang saya stop baca grup, tapi baca WA tidak kerja. Tidak semua kerja semua perempuan yang bisa komputer itu mahasiswa umur 25, yang tokoh-tokoh tua itu bodoh, kan. Kamu ngomong pakai komputer aja. Harus persiapan untuk ke depan, ini perempuan semua yang kerja. Yang ini heritage yang tua-tua ini. Hampir mati-mati. Saya sudah lebih enak ya.

Nuning: Pak Tanto the way this festival is organize is like horizontal, horizontal way of organizing festival, no, nggak ada yang bos, horizontal, atau how would you, how would, knowledge transfer. Ya kan biasanya pindah-pindah.

Pak Toto: Yang terjadi adalah apa yang disebut ekosistem itu. Jadi teknik, metode strategi itu akhirnya mengikuti ekosistem yang sudah ada. 

Pak Tanto: Saya kira iya, saya agak sepakat ekosistem.

Nuning: Terus itu transfernya gimana, pak? Dari satu desa ke desa lain. Oh karena jalan?

Pak Toto: Ya itu pergaulan. Ekosistemnya udah baur, gitu lho.

Pak Tanto: Ekosistemnya tidak dari orang. Bahwa ini ekosistem. Bukan proposal, ini ekosistem, ini bentuk kan. Crocodile system, insect system.

Pak Toto: Sekarang yang bisa diamati adalah anak-anak, yang dulu masih anak-anak kan berbeda setelah dewasa. Coba dibandingkan dengan kampung lain yang tidak ada ekosistem dalam tanda kutip akan berbeda. 

Pak Toto: Saya kira sama seperti sekolah. Sekarang orang itu sibuk metode teknik, padahal sebenarnya mestinya ekosistemnya kaya apa, gitu lho. Itu teknik metode. Nah sementara sekarang metode, teknik justru jadi komoditi kan. Ini yang nggak terjadi kan kita lima gunung tidak mengkomodifkasi, tapi mengkapitalkan seluruh apa yang terjadi. 

Nuning: This is might be interesting for all of you like. I ask pak Tanto and pak Toto, so if this, the way the festival is organize horizontal, and then how would you define the knowledge transfer of managing the festival and then pak Toto said, I think the answer lies in the way ecosystem works. Like try to see village and the whole thing as an ecosystem. It is very different to see child or young person if he or she comes from not this kind of village. Because this village is different because it sustained by its own ecosystem like art and culture. And thats what makes a different, and then pak Toto continued further by saying that, and thats maybe the problem with the school system as well, because normally school only cares about or pay attention too much about the methods, or skills, or technology of learning. And then saying that this kind of commodity. What is really matter is now everything is connected and create their own system of learning. And so thats how the knowledge transfer works here. And then what is capitalisation is that. 

Pak Toto: Justru perkembangannya lima gunung itu karena tidak menjadikan mata pelajaran, multikulturalisme, inklusi itu tidak jadi mata pelajaran di sini. 

Pak Tanto: Jadi tidak istimewa lah. Tapi kan daripada grup desa lain pinter cari uang kami. Kalau lainnya kalau jadi seniman cari uang dari seni malah miskin. Mending kamu seniman terus, terus nanti belajar mengelola sayur. Sekarang ini bos sayur, Ketuanya lima gunung itu mengelola manajemen personal dari tukang sayur dia bos.

Pak Tanto: So maybe the next future, I’m thinking how to rent the village for people. So you ask the tickets from Vietnam come here because more money, sleep here. And then you invite us. 

Pak Toto: saya kira ada prasyarat yang penting ya, bahwa lima gunung itu tidak lahir dari projek. Itu penting. Ya sekarang banyak orang yang mencontoh lima gunung tapi mereka projek. Projeknya mati ya sudah. 

Pak Tanto: No funding collapse. If here no funding you still lonely and dance, or just lonely. Okay lonely and dance. Lonely, poor, and dance. Okay, lonely still poor because the government always economy stupid. And then you still poor but you can get boyfriend from another village. So lonely poor but you go to Jakarta, you have western friends, you have you come to television.

Pak Toto: Dan jangan melupakan ini sudah 18 tahun. 18 tahun menjadi ekosistem semakin kuat. 

Danny: Ya it’s about practice, commitment, do it, just do it. 

Pak Tanto: Everybody enjoy. Not so much philosophical. One people contemporary pioneer, bullshit.

VCA Student: Pak Tanto one more question. When everyone helps out to brings sound system, people set up warungs, people build the decor, but you get any donations in terms of cash?

Pak Tanto: Ya we gave money everybody. I ask money from the poor also. 

VCA Student: So people donate? 

Pak Tanto: But not government. Because 5 student, after come to my community and then they campaign, and then next year he will give us money. And then we confuse, we make sumpah tanah, land vow like swear. Not sponsorship at all. But if you invite we need money too, why not.

VCA Student: So does it going to one bank account?

Pak Tanto: No everybody is bendahara. Ini semua ketua sendiri-sendiri, bendahara sendiri-sendiri. Political left wing okay, right wing okay, surealis okay.

VCA Student: So trust everyone

Danny: That’s way I have to brings students out. 

Pak Tanto: Tapi tidak seperti yang dipikirkan cari uang seperti seniman. Mengerti, ya? Orang kalau sekolah seniman, cari uangnya adalah canvas, pentas untuk turis, gitu kan ya. Kalau kita nggak, penginapan mau, ini apa, macem-macem kan. Jadi ini komunitas tapi tidak jadi seniman, tapi “How”, lha ini How mencari makan, uang itu jangan seniman, nanti kaya agamawan, to? Kalau mau kaya, beragama jadi Kyai, cari uangnya dari agama. Nah sekarang kalau mau cari uang banyak lewat agama, bisnis agama.

Nuning: I think what Pak Tanto is trying to get at is that the independent spirit of the whole thing. Toward a bureaucracy. He would always like dare to say or to do something that might not imagine by other people, by default always look up for the bureaucrat, you know. What he is trying to do is to say that I’m an independent human being. I know that you might feel something.

Pak Tanto: Tapi setelah itu tentu saya lumrah ya. Itu sudah terlanjur mengikat, Kontol Larung, nggak papa. Dan itu hanya bisa di desa. Di kota nggak mungkin, ketakutan semua. Justru di sini, lho yang santun. Coba hidup di sini seminggu, baru tahu Jawa yang sopan. Very polite, every Tuesday, always play gamelan, it’s a must. 

Nuning: I think the bravery or you know, very controversial staging, very controversial performance could only take place in this kind of village. And this is the village that always regarded as a like the most polite village among other villages in the around five mountain. They polite in speaking, and also in preserving the tradition, like once a week they always play gamelan. 

Pak Tanto: So if Nuning ask me what the system, I will say to her please stay here two weeks. It is imposible. Please stay three months. Because I stay here almost 29 years.

VCA Student: I got a question. When you’ve got free jazz approach of kind of like letting things happen, hands of, how do you make sure safe and equal for everyone, even the people with the power structure against them usually insist.

Pak Tanto: Apa-apa yang lebih sederhana?

Nuning: Bapak kan pendekatannya misalnya free jazz, pakai free jazz gitu ya, improvisasi, tapi bagaimana membuat seluruh proses itu tetap berjalan adil buat semua dan aman. Itu gimana caranya?

Pak Tanto: Ya, tidak aman lah. Kadang-kadang gejolak, ini keluar, ini konflik, ada hitungan uang terus marah dua. Ya, ada gitunya. Konflik. Dan itu pelajaran yang konkret itu. Jangan cari aman, dong. Tapi di situ ada damai kan?